His and Her Health

I’m 32yr old female, married almost 9yrs, no children (although I’d like to have some someday) I’ve been on b/c pills but have been off for a while & I’ve been with my husband for 15yrs. My problem is that I’ve NEVER had any sexual desire with him. I have sex because he enjoys it & it’s the thing to do when you’re married. My husband is the only man I’ve ever had intercourse with. I don’t have a problem getting aroused by pornos or reading sex scenes in books, bit I’d rather masterbate and have an orgasm by myself than to have sex. I can have an orgasm when I’m on top of my husband and my clitoris is rubbing in his penis. But as far as oral sex, I hate to receive it and the only reason I give it is to avoid sex. I don’t get aroused from it. I did – before my husband & I met – give oral sex and from what I remember (it was 16yrs ago) I enjoyed it. My husband and I have tried watching pornos together, we’ve tried using sex toys (I’m not into vibrators or any of that stuff). I don’t like dressing up in sexy outfits or talking dirty – I feel awkward and silly doing it. We don’t experiment with sex, I just don’t want to, I think it would be cool to have sex in risky places by I don’t want to with my husband. I just want to get the “jobâ€

This is a sensitive question, but do you find other men attractive in a sexual way? I know you said you could watch porn or read erotica and feel aroused, but this is a slightly different question.

Zane is generally headed down the right track, IMHO.<P>I do have some thoughts myself. Would you consider reading a book or two?<P>These books are both excellent. The first is easier to read, but not as nuanced as the second. I'd suggest the first book first, and if you find it good or excellent in helping you, then get the second and read it too. ("Passionate Marriage" was written before "Resurrecting Sex")<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Resurrecting Sex: Resolving Sexual Problems and Rejuvenating Your Relationship by David Schnarch (One really doesn't need both of David Schnarch's books, but both are good and somewhat different. Resurrecting Sex also discusses medical causes for sexual dysfunction, where Passionate Marriage only reviews the psychological, though it's an excellent book.)<LI>Passionate Marriage: Love, Sex, and Intimacy in Emotionally Committed Relationships, by David Schnarch - Score 8/10<BR></UL><P>You may find that you avoid sex for reasons you don't exactly understand or realize, or use it as a tool. This book *may* help you understand more about how the sexual dynamics play out in your relationship.<P>That said, I'd certainly consider the physical aspects carefully. It doesn't sound to me as though you're having physical/hormonal issues, but carefully examining them and removing all physical issues from the "highly probable" list would be helpful.<P>Best wishes,<BR>Greg<P>------------------<BR>[ Also note, I am *not* a doctor, and this is not intended as medical advice - Please talk to your doctor about your concerns.<P>[This message has been edited by distressed_12345 (edited 18 August 2003).]<BR><p>[Note: This message has been edited by NEWSHE Moderator]

About 3yrs ago I did find a co-worker sexually attractive. Nothing ever came of it and eventually the feelings went away. But I don't have sexual feelings from just seeing a guy across the room. I find other guys to be attractive, but I don't have feelings like I want to jump into bed. <BR>Does this even remotely make sense??

May I ask why you dated him for so many years and married him even though you never had sexual desire for him? To be perfectly honest, I would not be able to bring myself to do it once I realized it wasn't going to blossom into anything more than friendship and I'm trying to understand what is the motivation to date for such a long period of time without the attraction being there. We have friends of the opposite sex who we love dearly, but loving someone as a friend is not the same as being in love with him? I know a couple whomarried in college and 12 years later after counseling they decided mutually to divorce and have since met and married others and are now happy. They remain close friends and feel grateful to have learned from their mistakes. Some people are afraid of change is the way I see it. As a spiritual person my personal view is God wants us to shoot for the stars.

WREN - <P>Obviously you can make any replies you like...but...<P>Your tone seems insulting to me. It's as if you are proclaiming the poster a stupid bozo. Even if the poster agrees that, in hindsight, it wasn't a great decision, why rub their nose in it?! (And I'm not at all sure the choice was bad - I'm just assuming your point just for the sake of demonstration.)<P>What you see as an attraction and what the poster sees may be completely different things. <P>It's as though you are potentially verbally attacking a blind person for not knowing what they were missing by not being able to see. <P>*If* this poster is similar to our situation, or others I know closely about, your assumption may not apply at all. I'll simply speak for our situation. My wife desired me, but not in the sense that you allude to. But since she never really had "desire," the feelings you talk about would have been completely foreign to her. In our particular case, testosterone went a long way to resolving our issues. It wasn't the sole solution, but it was significant. And now the "desire" part is drastically different than it was before. (I believe the "attraction" you speak of would simply not have been present with ANY partner - it simply was NOT inter-partner "chemistry" or feelings.)<P>In any case, I think offering some advice rather than berating someone like a child over spilled milk would be more helpful. (And I don't think giving the advice of "leave your spouse" is reasonable at this point.)<P>Suit yourself I guess, but I thought it should be said.<P>Cheers,<BR>Greg<p>[This message has been edited by distressed_12345 (edited 19 August 2003).]

I am pretty sure I have natural ways of increasing a woman's desire for sex, which I have posted in other threads. I'm trying to get a study off the ground on it, though, so it's still inconclusive. However, this may not be the right path for you. I would second Greg's recommendation of the Resurrecting Sex book, and counseling may help. Increasing desire without having a clear focus on your husband may cause more problems than fix them.<P>I'm very unsuited at giving advice on this sort of thing, I'm more of a nuts and bolts maven. However, there is something physical he might be able to do that could help in a small way, as a complement to the counseling. Women respond to smell as much as men respond to visuals. I know this is going to sound completely nutty, but why not. If he wears antiperspirant, have him switch to deoderant instead, something that doesn't interfere too much, like Tom's Natural deoderant. Maybe even get him some cologne with male pheromones. Have him work out around you, and/or do yardwork or fix-it jobs around you that make him sweat. Even better, do something fun and sweaty involving you both in close proximity. I think the best would be lots of dancing close together at a club. I know it sounds silly, but I think it will help get you interested in him. As I said, this is just a minor thing that might help in a small way.<P><p>[This message has been edited by zaneblue (edited 19 August 2003).]

mydobie<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><BR>I don’t have a problem getting aroused by pornos or reading sex scenes in books, bit I’d rather masterbate and have an orgasm by myself than to have sex. I can have an orgasm when I’m on top of my husband and my clitoris is rubbing in his penis. But as far as oral sex, I hate to receive it and the only reason I give it is to avoid sex.<BR></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Can I ask a few questions?<P>What kind of frequency are we talking about when you masturbate? How about sexual relations (not only penetration) between you and your spouse?<P>Do you fantasize?<P>What is your relationship like? Obviously, the sexual problems are causing tension, but outside of that, how are things? Also, how much tension are the sexual difficulties causing?<P>Finally, could you get a copy of the blood-work you had done at the GYN? Would you be willing to post the test name, the result and the norm ranges here?<P>I'd be quite surprised if your GYN actually tested all the "right" things and then actually knew how to read the results. (Perhaps I seem cynical, but I have seen too many cases where either the wrong tests were run, the results completely mis-read, or both.)<P>I'm not at all sure your issues are physical, but I do wonder a bit. In any case, knowing what was tested and the results might go a long way toward eliminating that as a possibility. (Someone here recently had been told by their doc, that their testosterone was fine. When they got the lab-work, the only FSD related hormone tested was T4. This person asked - "Isn't T4 testosterone?" "No!" we said, that's thyroid.)<P>So, basically, I don't trust any non FSD specialist to actually test what needs to be tested and further to actually know how to interpret the results afterward. (I even have doubts about a number of those who are now claiming to be FSD specalists too!) There's a bunch of information on this subject in the "blood-work" section of the website listed in my profile if you're interested.<P>Lastly, would you be interested in seeing a FSD specialist? They would probably review all the physical and mental/psychological issues and help you find answers and solutions to your problems. It's no guarantee things would magically turn around, but it would probably be a good start. If you're interested, just let us know. I'll be glad to see what I can do.<P>Best wishes,<BR>Greg<P>My address is in my profile<P>Also note, I am *not* a doctor, and this is not intended as medical advice - Please talk to your doctor about your concerns.<P>[This message has been edited by distressed_12345 (edited 19 August 2003).]<P>]<BR><p>[Note: This message has been edited by NEWSHE Moderator]

to answer distressed_12345 questions - I probably masterbate on average once a week. And I usually fantisize about porno scenes, it's more or less the act rather than the people I'm fantisizing about. Outside of the sexual tension, things are pretty normal. The sexual tension is causing tremendous grief for both of us. I went over the results with my dr of my blood work and I'm completely confident in what he and I discussed.

Except in the cases of menstrual irregularities or signs of androgen excess (such as in polycystic ovarian syndrome), measuring testosterone levels is not indicated in women with hypoactive sexual desire. Those doctors who measure testosterone levels and imply they know what is normal or below normal and how to treat are really doing experiments on their patients. I'm not saying it is dangerous; more likely it is fruitless. Low libido is most common among premenopausal women with or without ovarian or adrenal impairment. No established lower limits of normal testosterone levels have been defined for women, and there is no pathologic process associated with development of isolated “low testosteroneâ€

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> The view that the average gynecologist is unable to interpret lab results is ludicrous. The truth is the purported experts themselves don't know what the answers are, let alone the correct questions to ask. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When I see doctors ...<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> Refuse to test Testosterone levels<LI> Fail to test prolactin, thyroid and estrogen levels<LI> Test Testosterone and Free Testosterone with the RIA assay method, which isn't nearly sensitive enough to test for women in general, and certainly not sensitive enough for those with very low testosterone levels.<LI>When I hear of physicians claiming that hystectomies and removal of the ovaries don't cause sexual difficulties in many women.<LI>When I see them treat with estrogen and/or testosterone without doing any testing to determine if it's appropriate.<BR></UL><P>When I see these, it makes clear that the *vast* majority of doctors have no idea what hormonal/physical issues can cause problems.<P>Further, it appears that few are willing to admit their lack of knowledge on the subject.<P>So, perhaps you frequent a GYN who does actually know his stuff, but that is by far the minority. You should consider yourself lucky.

I guess to answer wren's question - I alway thought sex would get better. I felt comfortable with him and figured that if sex was the only thing I didn't like that I could some how deal with it. Now I realize that sex is not the only part of a relationship but a major one. <P>At one point in our relationship I actually thought about having a kid only because I hear after you have kids the sex diminishes. I figured that was my way out.

Did you read my previous message? You seem to believe you have the answers for women. The reality is you don't, and neither do the purported experts in sexual dysfunction. 4 out of the 5 items you listed are not based on fact. There is no established treatment regimen for androgen use in women. Most of the questions in this area are unresolved issues. To date there is not even an empirically based understanding of normal female sexuality. As just one example, you're very much out of touch if you believe it's wrong for a physician to prescribe estrogen without doing a lab test.<P>You may feel insulted by Wren's comments but it seems to be because you took them personally and applied them to yourself. You focus on the sideshow of testosterone rather than understanding relationships and women in the context of their lives. This may be because it is easier for you to understand something concrete or scientific rather than something emotional or interpersonal that isn't as easily measured by numbers. Whatever the reason, when over 50% of marriages end in divorce, it's entirely appropriate to have discussions on this board about communication, sexual compatibility or attraction, the difference between love and being in-love, and other issues that should always be pondered before marriage. And, when over 50% of marriages end in divorce, it obviously is an option that many choose. You may be personally against divorce altogether, but most people are not. We all make mistakes in life. I do feel some people divorce hastily and later regret it, however I also feel many couples who are in unhealthy relationships have become co-dependent and don't want to take the risk of being alone. When a situation as Wren described occurs, when both parties mutually agree to separate on friendly terms, and later find who they were meant to be with, my thought is that it took a lot of guts for them to take the risk but they were willing to take the risk for a more fulfilling life for themselves and each other.<p>[This message has been edited by Bihag (edited 20 August 2003).]

Bihag, I happen to think in this case it's more of a relationship issue than a physical issue. You seem to generally take issue with people who propose physical solutions to women who post here. I assume that means you have a preferred approach to dealing with FSD issues.<P>I think this thread would be an excellent place to do that. Aside from just ditching the situation, which just about anybody could advise mydobie, do you have any advice on how to help her stay in the relationship and enjoy sex? I assume that is why she is here; if she had already decided to leave the relationship, she wouldn't be posting at this board.

mydobie,<P>I dated someone with whom I had no sexual attraction, other than in the beginning of the relationship before we really got to know each other. He was very good looking and kind and I thought I SHOULD be attracted to him, but apparently attraction doesn't work that way! At first, I was able to sort of separate myself from the situation mentally and sort of forget that I was with HIM when we were having sex. We weren't having sex TOGETHER, but separately, even though we were together physically, if you know what I mean. He of course had no idea what was going on in my head so he thought everything was wonderful. This only worked for a while until I lost all desire. I would say I eventually came to have a sexual aversion towards him. Nice guy but it just wasn't there. The relationship went on far too long than it should have, which made it all the more difficult to end.