His and Her Health

Being someone with Asperger's Syndrome, and an amateur philosopher, I've contemplated many aspects of life. I've had, throughout the years, a growing realization that childbirth stands out as uniquely inadequately classified, specifically in terms of why it hurts. I didn't think much of it until the internet formed, and I started doing searches. After many false leads, guided by a strong preference toward logic and away from laughter, I discovered several online claims that unassisted childbirth is safe and essentially painless, and sometimes even pleasurable. The basic idea rings true to my intuition, but the political nature of the way it is expressed would, if it were anything else, be too narrow-minded to believe. I'm left with the dilemma of what the purpose of obstetrics is, of what obstetricians think of these unassisted birth events, and of why women continue to choose obstetrics?

Safer delivery for mother and child.

The reason childbirth hurts is an evolutionary compromise. We humans have large heads but the path the head must pass through to get out into the world is narrow. You may notice that most mammals are much more independent at birth than humans. Fawns can stand and walk within a few minutes. Essentially, all humans are born "premature" - much more helpless and less developed than ideal for survival. But also at a stage of development where the size of the head can still get out without killing the mother.

The sites you have seen about unassisted childbirth are not objective. Every "camp" has its supporters and they all focus on what they think will promote their views. Childbirth, whether assisted or not has both painful AND pleasant elements. You can choose what to focus on in any setting and the human brain is remarkably flexible at forgetting the bad parts.

I have given birth twice. In a hospital both times, but not in a delivery room - just in the labor room. My births were not difficult, so I can't speak for women who had a hard time. I found the experiences exciting, exhilarating, happy and not without pleasure - the pleasure that comes with going along with a biological imperative. It feels so right! But it was definitely not without pain! I had natural childbirth and had learned skills to deal with the pain. The skills do not make the pain go away! They make you understand its role and how to handle it.

Personally, I agree that childbirth has become too "medicalized" - it's come to be treated almost like a disease rather than a natural process. Too many women are having cesaerians and it's not always because it's necessary - it's often because the doctor doesn't want to risk a malpractice suit. Women are often ignorant of the realities and normalness of childbirth because they never see it. In primitive societies, a woman would have grown up seeing it. Here it's the province of doctors behind closed doors.

That said, I would still not choose unassisted childbirth. How would you feel if your child had a problem at birth and could have been saved if you had doctors nearby? For me it was guilt insurance, but I made sure the hospital I went to had a liberal policy about allowing family and friends to be present and not interfering too much. Even though I was in a hospital, I never felt like the doctor delivered my babies. I delivered them. The doctor was there to catch and make sure he wasn't needed for anything more serious.

One thing I've never understood is why a woman in a hospital has to lie on her back to give birth. Even I, who was just a man with a kidney stone, felt terrible about having to lie on my back with an IV in my arm.

Because it's easier for the doctor to see what's going on.

Nowadays, many hospitals have birthing chairs and even if you're in a hospital bed, the back can be raised so you're not flat horizontal. Plus, in earlier stages of labor, the mother is encouraged to get up and walk around. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but it could be a little out of date. I wasn't forced to lie flat on my back and that was 20 years ago.

couldn't you have had your kidney stone at home.

Touché.

At that time I didn't have the emotional maturity to think of that option myself, and there was nobody to suggest that to me. That was before I started my research.

Another problem I've noticed -- perhaps this has also been solved -- is that the doctors seem to think that the "pushing" of the second and third stages is the only conscious action. That if the patient were to consider herself to be taking conscious control of the first stage, she would instead be starting the second stage early. Perhaps this is the fault of the way the first stage is described in the classes.

Is your wife having a baby? Is there some reason you have all these questions?

There's no point in pushing until the cervix is completely effaced and the baby is descended and ready to be born. Pushing before then can stress the baby and tire the mother to no benefit.

I would never have a baby without the assistance of a doctor, just like I wouldn't perform sugery on myself without a surgeon. Back in the day women died in childbirth ALL.THE.TIME and so did infants, so why would one want to revert back to it? I would of lost one or both of my twins had I not been in the hospital, the cord was wrapped around the presenting twins neck very tight 3 times and was also wrapped around his brother, I had an emergency c section, they where both set for a vaginal delivery.

Are you anti doctor?

Btw, my doctor is a very big advocat for natural childbirth and will not preform c sections unless there is no other way at the time. I went on to have a VBAC successfully 17 months after my c section.

I'm asking these questions because one of my lifetime projects is developing a less violent theory of childbirth. I am not anti doctor. I believe in the right and duty of doctors to treat emergencies. But I also believe that the number of emergency pregnancies is vastly overestimated, and that the operations in labor and delivery rooms in the normal pregnancies go far beyond ruling out emergencies. And I believe that good doctors are scientists, who do not feel threatened by debates.

Back in "the day", there was much less personal and household hygiene, and women were much less familiar with their reproductive system.

Today, there are ultrasound scanners that can find emergencies like Lady Crimson had. But there are no household versions of these machines, and no books for explaining to the average person how to read them.

And I didn't say a woman should "push" during the first stage. I said that pushing need not be the only conscious action of labor. There should be another word (maybe "pull") to describe something useful for the first stage.

Hi, Collin. I was married to a man with AS for five years, so I know a bit about it. You mention that you are AS as one of the first items in your posts. Most people with AS mention their condition to help others know how to respond to them. Since this isn't a board where AS is prevelant, it would be helpful for the other members to know more about your condition.

I assume that childbirth and the mechanics thereof are one of your narrow-focuses? It might be helpful for the respondents to know that AS is a neurobiological disorder on the autistic spectrum, and has some of the same definers. People with AS have no empathy, though some do have sympathy. They also have a short list of narrow-focuses, such as Collin seems to have with childbirth. They often choose focuses the in no way relate or correlate with their life, because it is easier for them to not have to process their own experiences and emotions into their paradigm of these interests. Exploring their own empotions and experiences can be especially difficult, and often the narrow focus interests are very far removed from any part of the AS person's life as part of the escape. A good example is that an AS child may focus on train schedules, but never ride trains.

Once put into a specific camp on these focuses, it is very difficult (and sometimes impossible) to change regardless of logical evidence presented of other reasonable possibilities. Routine is key for most AS people's daily lives, and they often do not deal well with change. They also deal less well with being percieved as "wrong," or having to precieve themselves as such, than those without AS. No one likes to be wrong, but for AS people it is especially difficult because their hardwiring makes paradigm shifts a much more jarriing experience.

People with AS do not understand social cues, which is one reason that the web is such a wonderful outlet for them--they can process information without having to try and process the emotions of others; however, it also means that respondents will have to be very, very direct and even overly blunt, so that Collin doesn't have to try to read between any lines. Understanding that Collins responses aren't emotionally based, and that emotional responses to his post will be difficult for him to empathize with, might be helpful for respondents.

Unlike autism itself, however, one of the defining factors of an AS diagnosis is that the person is very intellegent, often well above average, and have incredible information retention. So, they can be interesting fonts of information.

Hope this was helpful, and welcome to the forum, Collin!

Very helpful donna1. Thank you for the information. It sure explains Collin's interest.

Thank you for your post, dona1. However, I'd like to make two little corrections.

People with AS do have empathy. We just seem not to because we can't read ordinary people's non-verbal social cues. This is one reason we prefer the web, where everything is verbal.

Also, that isn't a camp I had been introduced to. It is one I found by myself, and I didn't even know it was a camp at the time. I was quite shocked, thinking I was unique in my logic, when I found that not only were there others who shared my idea, but that I was the only logical person among them (IIDSSM).

Lady Crimson, when you were pregnant with those twins, did you at any time have a pain in your liver? (Refer to television show Medical Mysteries, in which liver pain was a sign of TTTS.)