His and Her Health

I've read somewhere that the vagina changes in size, ect. before, during and after orgasm. My husband usually gets me to orgasm before penetration so that I have extra lubrication, however, last week in the shower we tried insertion before I climaxed and while the intercourse was still very uncomfortable, there was some sensations of pleasure. I didn't orgasm of course and it was still a bit painful (always is) but does this mean maybe it's better for the woman's pleasure to do it that way instead of climaxing first and then insertion? Any comments? Thanks! Angel

Every woman is different this way. Yes, the vagina changes with the various states of arousal, so this could make a difference for you. For some women, like myself, it makes no difference at all most of the time. For others, it is more pleasurable before, and for still others, moreso after. <P>Many psychs and therapists say wait until after the woman orgasms because it ensures she will have time to do so before the male finishes. If this isn't a problem, try using some lube and doing it before orgasm. It may increase your sensation, but if it's painful (as you said it was) it's probably still not a good idea until you've solved that problem.

RASCAL and dona, consider yourselves lucky either way. I've never even had the luxury of facing the choices you describe above -- my wife has never had an orgasm and isn't interested in doing anything about it, much less talking about it. If I had insisted that my wife have an orgasm before penetration, our marriage would never have been consummated!

patient, I am sorry to hear about you're wifes inability to orgasm. That said, I don't consider myself lucky, I guess, that I can do so. Unfortunately, the ability to orgam doesn't always mean sex is great, or even existant. My husband and I can't have sexual relations because of his neurobiological condition--it's essentially untreatable and incurable, and tends to get worse with age (and I don't necessarily mean old age--he's only 32). I don't just mean penetration, though that isn't a possibility--his sensory issues have, over time, meant the cessation of all sexual activities including anything simply to pleasure me. So, while I can orgasm, I feel and understand the pain of unfulfilling or no sex that you and your wife are going through on some level. Masturbation simply isn't a real and viable alternative for the intimacy lovemaking that both partners enjoy can bring to a marriage--it has been very difficult learning to live without--and is frankly pretty boring when it becomes all you're left with. Orgams in and of themselves aren't all that fulfilling when everything else is missing. Does your wife enjoy sex but cannot orgasm, or is it an upleasant experience for her altogether?<P>I hope you and your wife can someday find an answer, though I know it can be difficult for people to talk about their sexual issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Masturbation simply isn't a real and viable alternative for the intimacy lovemaking that both partners enjoy can bring to a marriage--it has been very difficult learning to live without--and is frankly pretty boring when it becomes all you're left with. Orgams in and of themselves aren't all that fulfilling when everything else is missing. [/B]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know I've mentioned this before, but tantra might help change that.<P>

Zane, thanks for the Tanta suggestion. I've read a lot of the tantra materials, and it's always interested me, but I've never put it into practice. This is probably going to sound sad, but it's requires time and quiet and solitude, neither of which I can get with any regularity (we live in a fairly small apartment). And, it's not that I can't enjoy masturbation, it's that the void between my husband and I--while we do much to fill it with other things--can't be filled all on my own. I am very satisfied in most other ways, of course, but the bond there is hard to keep somedays. <P>Tantra isn't an option for my husband because he doesn't have the cerebral mechanisms for it--he lacks intuitive understanding, empathy to a large degree (not to be confused with sympathy), and the ability to think things through in terms of self-awareness (the latter is something I help him do, and is part of a behavior regimine). It's part of his neurobiological make-up, and when you couple that with his sensory issues, it's just not going to happen. Even yoga is beyond him in the meditative and spiritual respects. We gave Tantra a go when he first started to experience his ED and PE issues, and it just made him feel like a worse failure ( <P>Tantra has some great possibilities for many people, though, from the good bit I've read. I often wanted to try it with past relationships; but, I couldn't ever get any of them interested, perhaps because we had fairly great sex lives already.

Of course I am speaking of solo tantra. That is a shame you don't have time alone.

Fortunately, I have a great internal spiritual-ness even without tantra. Connecting w/myself isn't a problem, and physically I can enjoy masturbation. What is missing, and takes getting used to, is the physical intimacy & connection with the person I spend my life with. I actually was quite happy alone for a long time--I don't really "need" someone to make me happy; but, once you commit your life to someone, it is difficult (for me, anyway) to not have that conrction. We do other things to keep our marriage alive, of course, but sexual intimacy was/is a difficult thing to lose. Even solo tantra, I am afraid, wouldn't solve that. I've wondered, actually, if it may make my particular situation worse--if I became really interested in sex again, with myself or with him, and he ever realized it, it could really upset him (understand, for those not Zane who read this, my husband has a neuobiological condition). He begins to beat himself up and becomes literally intolerable when like that happen. <P>And it does kinda stink to get very little slitude...I'd give a lot to live in the hills of Virginia somewhere ) Then I could just build a treehouse or something.

To Patient, I too am sorry for your situation. Yes, I can orgasm, however, if I never had sex again I'd be quite happy. From the beginning of our marriage six years ago till now we have struggled with sex. Many tears came from both of us in those first few years. It is only now that things are somewhat better and that's because we've both tried hard to be empathetic to each others feelings and have in a way accepted that sex would always be a difficulty so we'd have to make the best of it the way it was. We try to focus on the other great aspects of our marriage and try not to put too much emphasis on sex. I love my husband, he is so good to me and that's what I think of when I offer sex even though that's usually the last thing I want to do. Some times it is not as hard for me other times it is. I will ask him to join me in the shower because somehow it's easier for me to initiate it that way. The other night we tried the "penetrate before orgasm" and it didn't feel so good. When he tried to then get me to orgasm after he did, it just hurt and so I went without orgasming and it wasn't that big a deal to me so I feel like being able to orgasm is wasted on someone like me who has no sex drive or even a desire to orgasm. If I could, I'd give that ability to someone who likes sex but can't orgasm. Sexual problems can be an absolute nightmare for a marriage.

I'd like to post some points I've picked out from a list I ran across recently.<P>Guidelines for Revitalizing and Maintaining Sexual Desire:<P>1. The keys to sexual desire are positive anticipation and feeling you deserve sexual pleasure.<P>2. Each person is responsible for his/her desire with the couple functioning as an intimate team to nurture and enhance desire. Revitalizing sexual desire is a couple function, guilt and blame subvert the change process.<P>3. Inhibited desire is the most common sexual dysfunction, effecting one in three couples. Desire problems drain intimacy and good feelings from the relationship.<P>4. One in five married couples has a non-sexual marriage (being sexual less than ten times a year). Three in ten non-married-couples who have been together longer than two years have a non-sexual relationship.<P>5. The initial romantic love/passionate sex pattern of desire lasts less than two years and often less than six months. Desire is facilitated by an intimate, interactive sexual relationship.<P>6. The essence of sexuality is giving and receiving pleasure-oriented touching. The prescription to revitalize and maintain sexual desire is intimacy, pleasuring, and eroticism.<P>7. Touching occurs both inside and outside the bedroom. Touching is valued for itself, touching does not always lead to intercourse.<P>8. Couples who maintain a vital sexual relationship can use the metaphor of touching as having five gears. Gear one is clothes on, affectionate touch (holding hands, kissing, hugging). Gear two is non-genital, sensual touch, which can be clothed, semi-clothed, or nude (body massage, cuddling on the couch, showering together, touching going to sleep or on awakening). Gear three is playful touching, which intermixes genital and non-genital touching, this can be in bed, dancing, or on the couch clothed or unclothed. Gear four is erotic touching (manual, oral, or rubbing) to high arousal and orgasm for one or both partners. Gear five integrates pleasurable and erotic touch, which flows into intercourse.<P>9. Both the man and woman value affectionate, sensual, playful, erotic, and intercourse experiences.<P>10. Both the man and woman are comfortable initiating touching and intercourse. Both feel free to say no and suggest an alternative way to connect and share pleasure.<P>11. A key change strategy is to develop her, his, and our bridges to sexual desire. This involves ways of thinking, talking, anticipating, and feeling which invite being sexual.<P>12. Sexuality has a number of positive functions for the relationship – a shared pleasure, a means to reinforce and deepen intimacy, and a tension reducer to deal with the stresses of life and a relationship.<P>13. The average frequency of sexual intercourse is from four times a week to once every two weeks. For couples in their twenties, it is two-three times a week, couples in their fifties once-twice a week.<P>14. Personal turn-ons (fantasies, special celebrations or memories, feeling caring and close, anniversaries or birthdays, sex with the goal of pregnancy, initiating a favorite erotic scenario, being playful or spontaneous, sexuality to celebrate a career success or sooth a personal disappointment) facilitate sexual anticipation and desire.<P>15. Use of external turn-ons (R or X-rated videos, music, candles, visual feedback from mirrors, being sexual outside the bedroom, a weekend away without the kids, facilitate anticipation and desire.<P>16. Non-demand pleasuring can be a way to connect physically, a means to share pleasure and/or a bridge to sexual desire.<P>17. Intimate coercion is not acceptable. Sexuality is neither a reward nor a punishment. Sexuality is voluntary, mutual, and pleasure-oriented.<P>18. Realistic expectations are crucial for maintaining a vital sexual relationship. It is self-defeating and harmful to demand equal desire, arousal, orgasm and satisfaction each time. Realistically, half of experiences are very good for both people. Twenty percent are very good for one (usually the man) and okay for the other. Twenty percent are okay for one and the other finds it acceptable. Be aware that five to ten percent of sexual experiences are mediocre or failures. Couples who accept this without guilt or blaming and try again when they are aware and receptive have a vital, resilient sexual relationship.<P>19. Contrary to common sense myths of horniness after not being sexual for weeks, desire is facilitated by a regular rhythm of sexual activity. When sex is less than twice a month, the couple become self-conscious and fall into a cycle of anticipatory anxiety, tense and unsatisfying sex, and avoidance.<P>20. Healthy sexuality plays a positive, integral role in a relationship, fifteen-twenty percent, with the main function to energize the bond and generate special feelings<P><BR>

WREN, that is a wonderful list. Unfortunately it's easier said than done. Although women & men should know it is entirely possible with the knowledge that it is, in fact, POSSIBLE. Tim put it nicely: "we are rarely willing to fix/change the mental things even when we think we are, and the only thing harder to do than that is change how we FEEL about things."<p>[This message has been edited by Owner (edited 17 July 2003).]

And, of course, the "list" only works where a legitimate medical sexual dysfunction doesn't exist. There are similar things one in a mandatory non-sexual relationship can do to maintain non-sexual, yet loving, intimacy. <P>In my case, propagating sexual desire for myself is bad becaue of my husband's condition; so, we work on non-sexual intimacy. Sometimes, this is a real option--and often the only one. It is important to note that sex, while it's wonderful when it can be part of a relationship, sometimes simply can't exist and there are ways to work with that if both parties are willing.<P>So, the list isn't fool-proof, though it is certainly a good list for those marriages in which partners have the option of working to keep a sexual relationship alive.