His and Her Health

My new male partner is fantastic for me, buy often times stops during sex to have me 'dry it out'...is there such a thing as being too wet or does it sound like HIS problem?

Well now, his problem can become your problem, if you get my drift. If he is on the smaller side, he may just be trying for increased sensation, in which case you will both benefit if you are willing to tone up your PC muscles. Many women do this with Kegels, but I'm strongly in favor of vaginal cone weights to get really good muscle tone down there. On the other hand, if you both are a tight fit, it's just his personal preference, in which case I wouldn't have much sympathy with his position. But if he's otherwise fantastic, why not humor him?<P>Sometimes it's a cultural thing. "Dry sex" is very popular in Africa, and unfortunately has contributed to the spread of AIDS.<p>[This message has been edited by zaneblue (edited 01 September 2003).]

"Too wet" can happen even for women with tight vaginal tone and men of normal size. It's not a problem, per se, on your part--it's simply that you're a naturally very well-lubricated women. This is good in many ways, but can decrease sensation. I know that it's happened to me in the past, even though my muscle tone has always been excellent (kegels, etc.). It didn't just decrease sensation for him, but for me as well. It also got cold, clammy and uncomfortable for me. The "wet-spots" would literally be as large as my bum and half my back. Since naturally lubricant is also bit mucus-y, it was also sticky..ick. My long-term partner and I just started keeping slighly damp washcloths near the bed, and we'd take a "break" and quickly wipe us both off. This actually made a large difference in the enjoyment of things for both parties. It didn't get rid of the internal wetness, of course, but it did help alleviate some of it by taking it off of his penis and my outer vagina, meaning more friction.<P>Just an idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dona1:<BR><B>The "wet-spots" would literally be as large as my bum and half my back. </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow, I stand corrected. That certainly would be too wet. I suppose I'm coming at it from the other side; I've been with some men who like an uncomfortably dry feeling during sex (men who also liked masturbating with no lube) who have complained about me being lubricated at all. I call it Indian rope burn sex.<P>

OUCH!! You know, it seems like that would hurt the fellow, too, especially if it went on for any length of time...I mean, would that...chaffe?<P>I haven't heard of a lot of other women with the seriously over-wet issue, but my ex used to call me Niagra falls. It didn't happen all the time, though I could never find a correlation to time of month, what I ate, etc. There was the time I tried Viagra, since the psych my husband and I were going to was convinced I was looney because there were no such things as "vaginal orgasms," and tht all women have feeling in their clit...I just must need an extra boost. Ugh. What a disaster that was. I literally ended up on the toilet--even tampons were getting too wet too quickly to be of use. Of course, I should have known better than to trust her. In my head I knew she wasn't listening to me, and that the issue wasn't mine, but I was desperate at that point to do anything if it would save our sex life. *shrugs*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dona1:<BR><B>OUCH!! You know, it seems like that would hurt the fellow, too, especially if it went on for any length of time...<P></B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That wasn't an issue. Gosh I'm in a nasty mood this morning.<P>Interesting with Viagra. It's strange to me how much like a religion the "vaginal orgasms don't exist" myth is. I get attacked all the time on that very thing. I am convinced it makes some women feel intimidated, that the idea that other women can have orgasms just from penetration is too threatening to them.<P>

All one has to do is type the phrase "vaginal orgasms is a myth" and one will see how dogmatic some people are about that sort of thing. <P>I think I would find it very irritating if I were able to have vaginal orgasms and people who should know better were to insist that I was fabricating.<P>

Ugh...irritated is an understatement. It's really horrible to be told that you are nuts, that something is clearly wrong with you because you believe this, etc. Really, that kind of thing did more harm to my marriage than my husband's condition ever did.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by zaneblue:<BR><B>that the idea that other women can have orgasms just from penetration is too threatening to them.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What do you mean by this? Some women can have orgasms just from breast fondling or just from the mere thought. Would you mind elaborating on what you said?<P>

And I'm one of those women. It's a goal of mine to have as many of the ten different kinds of female orgasms that I can. Haven't hit all of them yet, but it's something to look forward to. In fact, I would have encouraged Dona to try for clitoral orgasms if it weren't for her situation. You only live once.<P>But I digress. Believe me, the women who take Kinsey's word on the only orgasm is a clitoral orgasm not only do not believe vaginal orgasms exist, they don't believe any other sort of orgasm exists (and certainly not "fantasy" orgasms). They believe even talking about them sets women up for feelings of inadequacy, not pausing to think about the women out there like dona who can't have the "approved" kind. I'm pushing my diet to give women the ability to have vaginal orgasms, and just telling women about it causes many of them to become antagonistic. I think it's because of Freud, who said the clitoral orgasm was the "immature" orgasm, and that a "mature" orgasm was the vaginal kind. Feminists especially seem to think this means that women will be enslaved to the male organ.

Actually, I've worked for clitoral orgasms, especially since that was all I heard for most of my life. Every guy I ever slept with wanted to prove they were well-versed sexualy and knew what the clit was. Those who were really into oral sex, which I find pleasant but not overly arousing, were always offended I didn't orgasm that way. They took it *very* personally most of the time. I think it was all the hype about it when I was reaching sexual maturity--it was all focused on the clit, though I suppose that was a great thing for other women. <P>Fortunately or unfortunately, those orgasms just aren't there for me. I have almost no feeling in my clitoris at all. When it's stroked, it feels much like getting my feet tickled or something, even when the hood is pulled back. It's interesting, and pleasant, but not arousing. Which is weird, because I have a fairly large clitoris. My hood is a bit thick, but can be moved with ease. Vibrators are just kind of annoying...I can feel them, I am not numb, there's just no pleasure there and the feeling isn't all that strong. That said, I don't like using them inside myself while they are "buzzing," because it gets really annoying really quickly. I tend to prefer the realisticly-penis shaped ones, or ones with rotating beads. My doc thinks the lack of clitoral sensation could be from some unremembered childhood trauma, or perhaps just that I was born with fewer nerve endings there. She, for one, firmly believes in vaginal orgasms ) Since I could always have mind-blowing, multiple vaginal orgasms, I never really bothered about it, though. Of course, now it doesn't really matter either way. When I was on the viagra, which was supposed to help me have clitoral orgams, I didn't have any more feeling.<P>I suppose I could try the Eros or something, but I guess I don't see a lot of reason to do so anymore *shrugs*

Guys want us to orgasm with them. I don't think they give a hoot what *kind* of orgasm it is. Men tend to measure themselves by their ability to make women achieve<BR>orgasms. This is where some have issues labeling the woman as dysfunctional if she isn't having orgasms and desiring orgasms. Most women I know don't measure the health of their sex lives by the number of orgasms they have or whether they have one at all. Yes it's a bonus but an orgasm isn't the be all end all to a satisfying sexual encounter. As for the different *kinds* of orgasms, I'm not getting what you ladies are saying. As far as I know, a woman's feelings during orgasm can vary from mild feelings in the clitoris to strong vaginal contractions and uterine contractions to rectal contractions to .... As for what *causes* the orgasms, it can range from direct clitoral stimulation to vaginal stimulation to anal stimulation to basically any part of the body or no part at all (ie totally mental). You understand this can be all within the same woman.<P>When I'm not in the right mental state, stimulation of my clitoris feels like someone tickling my feet also. The clitoris extends far into the body. Dona's *vaginal* orgasms could easily be *clitoral* orgasms in the strictest sense of the word. But does it really matter? It's not the physical but the mental that allows women to experience bad sex versus so-so sex versus great mind-blowing sex.<P>Has Zaneblue considered the idea that the success of her *diet* is the result of a mental change, not so much a physical one? Sex/masturbation for many of us is a form of MEDITATION liberating us from our thoughts and emotions. Men often use it as a way to cope emotionally, as an outlet, as a way to make them feel good about themselves. Women do too. Good sex is like a strong drug. It can take us to another plane entirely. You can probably *teach* women to orgasm in 2 minutes from stimulation of their elbows if you wanted to. But at the end of the day, achieving a reliable *fast* orgasm isn't what it's about.<p>[This message has been edited by Zoe (edited 02 September 2003).]

Zoe, pretty much what we are saying is that many doctors, especially therapists, don't acknowledge that orgasms can happen in the variety of ways you talk about. They're still stuck on the outer clitoris theory, and insist that one can't feel anything else. Yes, I've had this said to me directly--the vagina has no feeling, there is no such thing as any type of "vaginal" orgasm and I was making it up to make my husband feel bad, I needed counseling to get over my desire to have these false "vaginal" orgasms (which I even conceded could be orgams caused by stimulation of the part of the clitoris that runs deep into the vagina just to stop the stupid argument, since she wouldn't accept that there even *was* a g-spot or that cevical stimulation could cause orgasm; but, she still insisted that even the interior clitoris could never be stimulated enough to give a woman an orgasm), that it takes women at least 30-40 minutes of full, outer clitoral stimulation to actually orgasm so no women should ever expect to have one (this was from SEVERAL certified sex-theraptists)...you get the idea. It is not generally accepted, at least in my state, that there is any way to have an orgasm save direct, outer, clitoral stimulation. <P>There are different types of "vaginal" orgasms, as well--one caused by stimulation of the part of the clitoris that runs up the anterior wall of the vagina, for example, and one that is caused by cervical stimulation. Mine come exclusively from either g-spot or cervical stimulation, most often cervical stimulation. So, vaginal is, as Zoe implies, a broad and not wholly accurate term. My outer clitoris has very little feeling, regardless of how "in the mood" I am, and the part of my clitoris that runs deeper into my body has never really felt much, either, that I can find. *shrugs* As recently as 2.5 years ago, I was still working to find that sensation, but nothing ever hit it even with my doc's recommended suggestions. There is, of course, the possibility that I it has feeling and I just was never able to really find it.<P>I believe it is true that mental state can play a large part in a woman's enjoyment of sex, but I definitely don't believe that it's always the entire reason she can or can't experience mind-blowing sex. Other things DEFINITELY play a factor, as evidenced quite clearly by some of the physical factors that are scientifically shown to affect sexual ability and enjoyment (diabetes, thyriod conditions, and reactions to certain medications are excellent examples). Especially in the case of certain illnesses, sexual side effects are often the only symptom, or one of a few, a person will have for quiet sometime without knowing they have a physical ailment. So, it's not a mental reaction to their ailment, but a physical side effect. We also know that often women going into or through menopause experience libido and sexual pleasure differences, even before they realize they're going through menopause. A women who loses her uterus during a hyst may experience serious loss of sexual satisfaction if her primary orgasms are vaginal ones that result in deep contractions of the uterus (mine are exactly that). No uterus=no more fabulous, deep orgasms=less mind-blowing sex. Certain drugs, most famously SSRIs, can inhibit both libido and orgasmic ability, and this is a chemical reaction (it's why they've started to use SSRIs as treatment for men with premature ejaculation difficulties--it inhibits orgasmic capability via a chemical process).<P>I never really measured my overall sexual satisfaction with a partner by how many orgasms I had, but rarely would I have classified individual sexual encounters as really good or great if I didn't have at least one. This could, of course, simply be because I could orgasm at the drop of a hat, and could do so many times. For me, <BR>'mind-blowing" sex (which, btw, was not always the same as mind-blowing making love--I am not a women who always needed a deep emotional connection to have fabulous sex) always included at least one deep, vaginal orgasm that often brought me to involuntary tears from the pleasure. This is perhaps because it was difficult for me to bring myself to this kind of orgasm simply due to logistics...it's hard to stimulate one's own ucervix without getting into an awkward position that is uncomfortable enough to make orgasming a bit rough. Bad sex is definitely not always in the mental state of the women. My husband and I had REALLY BAD SEX for quite a long time while we were searching for answers about his sexual issues. It's not that I didn't love him, etc., it was that the entire enounter lasted about 10 seconds if you included the time it took him to get erect, and that he was simply a horrible lover after ejaculation. Much like setting a kid in front of a plate of broccoli: you could get him to eat it, but not with much zeal. He couldn't please me before because ejaculation because there literally wasn't time before he ejaculated--once he was erect, that was pretty much it. It wasn't my mind that was causing bad sex, it was just bad sex. There was no time for it to be good, there was no enthusiasm on his part to help make it so, and it was simply frustrating. There was a physical cause on his end, as we found out later, that also caused the utter lack of enthussiasm.<P>My point is that I don't think it's fair to say "It's not the physical but the mental that allows women to experience bad sex versus so-so sex versus great mind-blowing sex." I believe that can be true for some women, but as a blanket statement I believe it's incorrect. While a woman with certain mental or emotional issues to resolve may not be able to have great sex, even a totally mentally and emotionally healthy women can have bad sex with the wrong lover or due to physical factors.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dona1:<BR></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Zaneblue's point (speaking for Zaneblue), as well as mine, is you probably have the *ability* to have orgasms from outer clitoral stimulation too.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Zoe (edited 03 September 2003).]

Zoe, we'll have to agree to disagree here, then. I am fairly sure I probably don't have the ability to have clitoral orgasms, at least not ones from outer-clitoral stimulation, just due to lack of sensation. My breats, vagina, etc. are all fairly sensative as are the other "erogonous zones" of my body like the inside of my knees, but that particular part of my genitalia just never has been. I don't even really feel pain there in any meaninful way (my gyn's tried that), though I can feel pressure to a degree. You know how the heel of your foot feels (keep in mind I am a rock climber and have callouses there) if it's tickled--you can feel someone is doing something and it's not a bad feeling, but it's kind of...muted? And if you put a needle into it to pop a blister there's pressure, but no pain? That is pretty much what my outer clitoris has always felt. Vibrators, even powerful plug-ins, are more annoying to me than anything. My outer clitoris doesn't really respond, but my labia and other areas get irritated by it. Without the sensation there, I can't imagine how I'd orgasm that way.<P>The doctor can't confirm injury simply because I don't remember one, but says it is possible I had a biking, horseback riding or other type of incident when I was young that damaged things. It can happen to other parts of the body, certainly, and the clitoris is no different in that regard. Nerve damage is nerve damae. I do, after all, have half a toe I still can't feel after well over a year. Or, it may just be a congenital defect...something I was born with. My body may have compensated with my ease of other types of orgasm, perhaps.<P>Of course, given my current situation, I do suppose this is all a moot point.