His and Her Health

My wife uses sub-lingual testosterone. She has tried different doses and has settled on 0.75 mg per day because more than that gives her acne. She's definitely easier to get along with when she's taking it, but the part I was hoping for - increased interest - has been marginal at best. Does anyone have a suggestion for a different form/route that will work better. She's 45, has a very regular cycle still, she's in good health otherwise, has an active lifestyle. We have three kids ages 7, 11, and 14. I don't think there are any other issues (other that should I expect sex more than a couple times a month), during ovulation her interest is at least acceptible.

I don't have much time, but I will relate a bit here...<P>We (my wife) was on a sublingual troche (30 days) and sublingual drops (60 days). After three months on them, we didn't feel much was happening - on any front. (After stopping the treatment, we noticed a dramatic loss of stable mood - in around a week, things seemed quite unbearable to her. It was at this point, that we began to think - "Hmmmm. Perhaps the T did more than we thought."<P>In doing more research, it appears as though T levels peak and drop back to baseline levels *very* quickly for sublingual applications - probably in the range of 30 minutes to an hour, and certainly less than a few hours.<P>What effect this has on the general viablility of sublingual application, I'm not sure - I don't think anyone really knows. Given our results, I don't recommend them, though they are used to treat men with success. But transdermal applications are getting much more attention, I suspect because they produce more even serum T levels.<P>Our next run at the problem resulted in using androgel 1% - 1gm (about 1cc) per day.<P>We have been on this route for more than four months and the results for us were quite startling. Sensation and intensity are much increased for genetalia and nipples. Ability to orgasm and satisfaction is better. Much better lubrication - prior to treatment, intercourse wouldn't have been even a consideration without lubricants - now it could be a possibility though we have not yet tried it 'au natural.' Mood is much better, and though we'd like to see more in the way of energy, we think there is some benefit there.<P>Testim is another alternative. Both are mass produced topical testosterone products for men. By working with your provider, you can reduce the dose and work to titrate it for your particular situation. (Make sure you're using a reliable assay method to measure Free T levels, or with the FAI. There's more information available on this subject at a website I'm involved in - see my profile.)<P>We've not had any serious issues with acne, hair-growth and other virilization effects. We have noticed that T levels initially peaked, and then over subsequent months, have dropped significantly - even with no changes in dosage.<P>Hope that helps.<P>------------------<BR>Also note, I am *not* a doctor, and this is not intended as medical advice - Please talk to your doctor about your concerns.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by distressed_12345 (edited 02 September 2003).]<BR><p>[Note: This message has been edited by NEWSHE Moderator]

Greg, humor me. This is the first time I've heard your situation described in detail. Go get some iron pills at the drugstore and if your wife is willing, have her take them for a week. I'm willing to bet her energy and interest in sex will perk up a bit. If it works, of course ask her to check with her doctor about long-term use.

Testosterone levels can vary significantly from test to test, within the same woman at the same time of month and time of day.<P>question- What options does your wife feel she has with regard to being *successfully treated*? What if the *treatment* doesn't *work*? What does she expect will happen in terms of your marriage? Is she the type who does things out of a sense of obligation, or do you feel she's in touch with her own feelings, apart from yours? When you speak of her as an individual, you refer to her as *we*, which is concerning. Does she have female siblings or women friends she can talk to about these things to put things in context for herself?<p>[This message has been edited by Zoe (edited 03 September 2003).]

I only used we when I said that we had kids. So I don't understand the problem with that. I do understand the problem with whether my wife feels obligated to do something about her lack of interest in sex. She doesn't miss it at all. She gets it when she wants it. The rest of the time she's happy to bury herself in the kids, PTO, home , garden, splitting wood, scooping snow. She wants to continue the sublingual because she reallizes that when she doesn''t take it, she gets very crabby about small matters. I suspect that having an "estrus" at ovulation time is normal as it is in most mammals. We men just haven't had to cope with it for the last four-thousand years or so.

Sorry yooper- I did not make it clear I was directing my questions to Distressed12345.<P>(Low testosterone levels must not be the reason for your wife's low interest in sex. You might consider pursuing other avenues)

<B>Zoe</B><P>I didn't post on this thread to get into a large and distracting discussion about my personal experience. (This will be my only response on this thread. If you'd like to discuss in a dedicated thread, start one, and I'll consider it.)<P>I will say that we (my wife and I) have discussed what options make sense for us as a couple and as individuals - as we do for virtually all of our lives, not just the sexual portion of it. We discuss what options make sense for cars, homes, how we handle our children, what choices we make for health-care etc. How it should concern you that I refer to us and our options as "we," I don't understand. I ask for her advice about things that effect me exclusively, and she does the same. Personally, I think it shows strength and mutual respect rather than my urge to override her choices. But that's yet another wide digression.<P>We are *both* _extremely_ happy at the results we have seen so far from the T. It was clear to us, that sublingual forms of T were not very effective. Transdermal application of T was/is much more effective.<P>From most of the reseach I've seen, daily variations of T are generally small and monthly variations of T are associated with normally cycling women. Women who are on OC's and those who are post-menopausal do not have monthly variations. We have measured T via equilibrium dialysis, the most precise method available, quite a number of times, and the trend is pretty clear. (We measured at nearly the same time of day, and the same time in the cycle each time, even though these fluctuations should not be present in our situation.) We're not talking about small percentages, we are talking about 25%+ reductions in Free and Total T values over a course of four months.<P><B>yooperdaddy</B><BR>To get this back on topic, is there anything else that might be helpful for you?<P>If you have questions about anything, just let us know. <P>FYI: Our response from the transdermal T took at least 90 days. We did see some increased lubrication fairly quickly, and sensation seems to be continuing to improve week on week. Libido also seems to be continuing to improve. (I'd relate a story or two, but it seems it would only serve as a weapon to be used to bash me.) In any case, I think it's important for you to make sure her T levels are low to start with, and then to verify that T levels have increased to a reasonable range and are stable. <P>It's my personal opinion that transdermal T will allow for the best results, given the options available now.<P>One more thing. I suspect your insurance will not pay for the sublingual T because it's compounded. In our case, and in several others I've heard about, insurance companies ARE paying for Testim and Androgel. Add this to the fact that mass produced products probably have higher quality control overall, I think the case for either of those two products is pretty good. (Plus, at 1gm a day, Androgel is about the same cost as compounded creams etc even if you have to pay it out of your own pocket.)<P>I assume you have both read some, but I'll make a couple of suggestions anyway. If you've already seen these, just use what's useful.<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>I'm Not in the Mood: What Every Woman Should Know about Improving Her Libido, by Judith Reichman - Score, 9/10 <LI>For Women Only: A Revolutionary Guide to Overcoming Sexual Dysfunction and Reclaiming Your Sex Life, by Jennifer Berman - Score 8/10 <LI>Hot Monogamy: Essential Steps to More Passionate, Intimate Lovemaking, by Patricia Love - Score 7/10 <LI>Resurrecting Sex: Resolving Sexual Problems and Rejuvenating Your Relationship by David Schnarch (One really doesn't need both of David Schnarch's books, but both are good and somewhat different. Resurrecting Sex discusses medical and psychological causes for sexual dysfunction, where Passionate Marriage only reviews the psychological, though it's an excellent book.)<LI>Natural Hormone Balance for Women: Look Younger, Feel Stronger, and Live Life with Exuberance by Uzzi Reiss - Score N/A <LI>Getting the Sex You Want, a Woman's Guide to Becoming Proud, Passionate, and Pleased in Bed by Sandra Leiblum, Ph.D. and Judith Sachs. </UL><P>I've read all of these, and all are very good. Perhaps you might consider reading them together.<P>Best wishes,<BR>Greg<BR>You may go to my profile for more information<BR>.<BR>------------------<BR>[Also note, I am *not* a doctor, and this is not intended as medical advice - Please talk to your doctor about your concerns.<P>[This message has been edited by distressed_12345 (edited 03 September 2003).]<BR><p>[Note: This message has been edited by NEWSHE Moderator]

No problem Zoe. I actually reallized later that you may have not been refering to me. Distressed, one last guestion. Where is that androgel applied? Thanks.

She applies androgel to the small of the back or low on the abdomen. I think it can be applied to the shoulders too. (Actually, I suspect it can be applied nearly anywhere, but these are easy places to apply it to which are not likely to facailitate transfer of the T to another person and also offer decent absorbtion rates.<P>One thing I forgot. If you do use Androgel or Testim, get the five gram (5g) packets. The cost is nearly identical to the 2.5 gram packets, and since you're already probably going to use a syringe, it's really of no difference - just half as expensive per gram of T.<P>Best wishes,<BR>Greg