His and Her Health

There is nowhere to turn. Maybe a handful of doctors here speak English. There is no such thing as help, or self help, or books in English. The few expat women who are in Russia are young. I'm a 50-something expat woman in Russia, left to suffer in silence with a husband who is obliquely immune.<P>It could hardly be worse. I could deal with menopause and aging better I think, anywhere else. In Russia women are a cheap commodity. They cease to have any descriptive value past the age of 35. They lose their jobs to younger prettier women and their husbands too. In Russia I don't count as a living human. This is a country with literally millions of gorgeous, young, desperately available women with a short shelf life. A woman like me is without any human value here. Sexuality counts for EVERYTHING here, and according to this society, mine has long expired.<P>I thought I was unhappy when I left the States. Little did I know that it could be much much worse. At 50-something I'm not bad looking, well kept up, nicely dressed but it doesn't matter. All the menopause treatment in the world doesn't make me a person here. I don't exist. <P>I'll be here for 2 more years of this. Then to some other god-forsaken place. Then likely back to Russia for 4 more years. If I'm still alive by then I'll be 60. I drink too much and smoke too much and I don't care. My life is effectively over. With the end of reproduction we cease to have value. We're old ladies. Nobody wants old ladies.<BR>I never knew this was going to happen....I had no idea that the value of a woman was so tied to her reproductive system. And when it sputtered and died so any kind of meaningful life went with it. The cruelty of it is unconscionable.<P>P.S. Please, please don't suggest thatI need 'hobby' to relieve my circumstances. We are what we are and after menopause we are just killing time.<P>[This message has been edited by overseas_mom (edited March 21, 2005).]<p>[This message has been edited by overseas_mom (edited March 21, 2005).]

Overseas Mom,<BR>Your post was so illuminating about the state of women over age 35 in Russia today. So sad, too. An understatement would be to say it's a terrible injustice because it's worse than that. <P>Look what that culture is doing to you. It's dictating how you're feeling about yourself; it's deciding how valuable you believe you are as a person. That is not right. Did this cultural sea-change begin in Russia when it became more capitalistic, I wonder......But the fact of the matter is, it's doing damage emotionally to you and probably other women. Is there any way you could put together a support or discussion group to deal with this situation? Perhaps other ex-pat women of a certain age could meet and at least vent?<P>It also sounds like the men have too much power, i.e., they're making all the hiring decisions and basing them on youthful looks and sexuality. The men sound incredibly immature and shallow. I'm sorry it is so unbearable. Would it help if you did some positive "self-talk" for a few minutes each day to re-affirm to yourself of your very valuable worth as a human being (no matter how little the Russian culture is valuing you).<P>The United States looks more progressive compared to Russia in this regard, but I won't give the US high marks, no way . Is the Russian media similar to the US, re: the glorification of young flesh to sell consumer goods? Are the movies in Russia like those of Hollywood in which a "geezer" male actor is continually paired as a lover with a twenty-something actress?<P>Please try not to let that stilted Russian culture force you into unhealthy coping options (like alcohol and tobacco). The culture "wins" when that happens. Can you find at least a cardiovascular exercise that will help release endorphins in your body so that you will feel better....... this isn't a hobby; it's a lifestyle of movement vs. health-robbing activities.<P>Do you have a religion that can bring you comfort............<BR>Just know that your post was very moving and enlightening and that I very much feel for your situation. We all have "prisons" in our lives at different times and yours presently is the dysfunctional culture that you're living in. Don't let it win -- I know "easier said than done", but no one can control your thoughts -- those are your own. Keep posting. Take good care, Xtraburden<BR> <BR>

Self talk to reaffirm my valuable worth?? Such as.....what? I think really everywhere, some places more in-your-face than others, the value of women is shot when their reproductive days are over. Sure we can undertake self improvement projects, go to school, function in the workforce, but that hardly negates the overwhelming sentiment that we are pretty much used up and useless and undesireable.<P>Because there's no going back. We will never recover our hormones. We only become older and ever less attractive, ever more wrinkly and saggy, it's all downhill from here to a decrepit old age and then it's over. There is no future to look forward to when you're a post reproductive woman. <P>I was talking to an American friend the other day, really a kind and gentle fellow, that I was thinking of getting training for teaching ESL here. He looked at me and said "well of course your age will be a problem though..." Of course! How could I forget that for even a moment!? There I was forgetting for just that split second that I was an older woman, not cute, not youthful, not hormone-charged. How foolish of me to slip up like that. What was I thinking?<P>We are constantly reminded that our value is gone. Our roles as sexy partners and mothers are in the past. We are the only species that has a menopause and lives beyond it. I don't know why. I often wonder why god punishes us this way.<P>

Hi Overseas-Mom,<BR>Get a grip on yourself! Don't let where you are determine who you are. You don't say if your husband is Russian or a like culture. Does he value you and tell you so?Nevermind.<BR>This has to be a do-it-yourself project. First of all take care of your health. Stop or slow down the drinking and smoking, both are depressants. Research all you can about menopause on the web.<BR>Do try for the jobs that interested you. Don't let someone elses idea that you are too old for it hinder you. If you don't try you will never know .<BR>I am 76 and still working. I feel useful and let everyone know I can still keep up with the 40 year olds.After menopause we are still sexual women if not reproducers.We have value as role models, teachers and advisors.Remember we have been there and done that and we should share our knowledge with the younger people.I hope your husband is affectionate towards you. If not then love yourself!<BR>I wish you luck. Don't give up . I am rooting for you.<BR>Ruby<BR><p>[Note: This message has been edited by NEWSHE Moderator]

Overseas Mom,<BR>It was nice to hear back from you. <P>Age-related prejudice is everywhere, like you said. It affects women much more overtly than it does men. For example, look at the anchorpeople on the news: an old, fat, wrinkly balding man will have decades of work to look forward to in front of the camera but it's rarely reciprocated for the women in the news business. A prediction: I imagine that in less than ten years they'll have scantilly-clad supermodels doing the news ! The media is a complete joke, pandering to the male libido. I try to brush it off.<P>Yes, it feels like it's everywhere but there are places where women are judged on the important qualities like their brains. <P>The young ones will get older, too. No one is immune.<P>Myself, I'm 47 years old. My husband left me for a younger women some years ago. Even with that, I still feel great about myself. I am proud of the challenges I've been through; I'm GLAD I am past the reproductive fertile years of my life. I find it positively liberating not to have to "donate" my body to reproduction ever again! I look forward to having no menstrual periods someday -- tha't s a burden to have lifted for sure. I look forward to my children growing up and to the increased freedom that goes with that. I do not care if my kids get married or have children of their own; I just want them to find their niche(s). But becoming a grandparent is something that would be wonderful I believe. I would also love to start a masters degree program or just take classes. There are more good things than you may realize. Write down ten things you are thankful for............you can do it! <P>I don't base my feelings of value on my reproductive abilities or youth. I value my thinking abilities, my personal skills, problem solving and making-the-world-a-better-place abilities!<P>Here's a question: how is your relationship with your husband? Is he contributing to your feelings of being less valued? Is your relationship affectionate.....do you enjoy doing activities together..........do you like to talk? Do you consider yourselves each other's best friend? Are you attracted to each other? Are YOUR needs being met by your marriage? <P>I know that every year I'm going to be a little older, more wrinkled and all that goes along with aging, but I am doing the best I can with what I have. I don't drink, smoke, take drugs unless prescribed by a physician, I exercise five times a week with weights and cardio and it makes me feel great. A healthy lifestyle is not to be under-rated. Alcohol is not a good coping choice! Also, I have a chronic pain condition that I must rise above every second of every day of my life. I'm always in pain but somehow most days I can overcome the sadness and anger the pain brings to me, thank God. It's difficult but not impossible.<P>You can overcome your surroundings too.<P>I don't think God is punishing us...... but I agree there are lopsided inequities with regard to males and females, though.<BR>Take care, Xtraburden<BR>

Reading your post has overwhelmed me. I dont know whether to give up and die or somehow try to deal with and make the best of menopause and all the gloriousness that goes with it. I felt your pain as I read your words. So sorry that this is happening to you. I am 40 and feel that I'm entering perimenopause, this is one of the most difficult times in my life along with having a thirty year old voice disorder, (muscle tension dysphonia) and anxiety/depression. I have always delighted in my youth and seeing it fade daily no matter what I do hurts. All the exercise, healthy eating and beauty treatments in the world can't stop this, its almost comparable to loosing somoene you love, and I dont mean to sound shallow. Not a day goes by that I dont dwell upon what is happening to me inside and out. I am always thinking of what I can do next to slow down this nightmare process including hair extensions and cosmetic surgeries. This is really sad and now I am making myself ill for being so ungreatful. This is an internal/external problem and it will only get worse if some kind of healing process is not started. I am close to college graduation, (mid-life career change) and not at all excited I only think now I will start a new career and hopefully work for the next 27 years then die, its like there is nothing else to look forward to, nothing good inbtwn. now and death. I face some age discimination but nothing compared to what your going through. I can't imagine being in another country and not knowing many ppl. and having the language barrier. I have always been a strong person but this is the one thing that has brought me down. Having said all this I choose not to give up no matter what. If I dont fight for me who will. Life is too short and I want to make the best of it. I may need to seek therapy or read some good books. Talking to others experiencing this helps a little and support I think is the key. I am gonna try to see something good in everyday and hope you will to. Good luck and there is support here for you. Hang in there and Don't give up.

I appreciate everyones responses, if you had to trade places with me--you'd jump off the nearest bridge.<P>It's warming up here in Russia. You know what that means? It means that the girls take their clothes off. And no, they're not at the beach. They wear-get this-fishnet blouses. No bra, no T-shirt, no nothing underneath. Tiny tiny little skirts with no underwear. This ain't America. Brazilians don't go around looking like these Russian girls. You just wouldn't believe it. Naturally the men are floating on cloud #9. All I hear about is T & A and blond leggy beautiful young girls....till I want to hide in the closet.<P>And now guess what? My husband is having a good case of erectile failure. Never before has he ever been anything but ready and willing. I see him eyeing all these naked girls and their nipples and navel jewlery and all I can think is that it's gotta be me. Old thing. Who'd want to get it up for me, after all? What have I got? A flabby belly, menopause, thinning hair. What do we do? What do we do? I just gets worse.....

Hi OverseasMom,<P>Sorry about the environment you are living in. Makes me assume that there is a vert high incidence of sexual harrassment and sexual assault in that country. <P>I'm not trying to alarm you but your husband's erectile dysfunction.....is he possibly masterbating away all the erections and leaving less for the 2 of you? No chance of an affair, right? He could be depressed or on meds that would bring on ED. Don't put it all on yourself.<P>Personally with regard to the nearly naked women, yes, it would be difficult for me to live there and tolerate that. Are the men showing their manly parts for all the women to admire, too, or is it one-sided with just a sexy show for the males to enjoy? (the usual).<P>You're still a sexy woman too. Xtraburden

i feel for you. the obsession with younger women, i feel , is in the usa too. i too feel like my lifes over. im 49 and been in menapause for a number of years now. but what worries me the most, and noone seems to talk about this. what happens after this? ive seen posts where people are worried about keeping sex alive in thier 50s and such. but what about later? are these people just not online or have they really given up? menapuse used to be a taboo topic of conversation, but now i think whats taboo is what happens to you body after the 50s. if women suffer from low sex drive, low sensation and dryness at 50 , could that get worse ? i still have wetness and cant iminagine it not geing there. i put high iu's of e oil on it everytime i bathe. if it feels dry or itchy, i put more on it. but will the e oil continue to work or what. i cant take the hrt cause i got blood clots. i posted a question about the patch, maybe it has less side effects. i do think the fish oils have added to my wetness.<BR>

My ex-husband is with younger pretty women. I am 39. I live in Boston. That's not a Russian phenomenon.

And I am not a man.

I hesitate to say this, but this past week I have been webcamming and I have seen with my own eyes what I said. I swear it is true--I was in a rooms with hundreds of men masturbating. They went bananas--and I also saw very young and pretty women in the room too. They like to look at young women, but they like more to see a woman enjoying herself. I am not attractive.

Hi Zane,

I am trying to follow your post about the webcamming -- not sure what it was you were viewing, hundreds of men all at once in the same place with young women? In the USA? I don't know if I'd ever want to witness that scene; not a prude at all but that sounds pretty far out of the mainstream.....

How are you dealing with the 'younger prettier women' thing? Sounds like it could be affecting your self-esteem, especially with the "I am not attractive" sentence you wrote at the end. Doesn't sound like the confident Zaneblue we know on this message board!

It's not easy -- I know; I'm 47 and I take really good care of myself. We can only do our best with what we've got, and then we ought to commend ourselves for the wonderful women that we are. This culture is far too youth-obsessed. Sad.

Oh, I'm not saying anybody should witness it. It's online, so it attracts people from all over the world.

My self esteem was affected LONG before my ex-husband started dating younger, prettier women. He lost sexual interest in me while I was still young and very pretty. I was quite pretty by society's standards.

So I have neglected my appearance quite deliberately, and by society's standards I am not attractive. I am very overweight. What's the point of being pretty if it doesn't bring love and sex from your husband whom you love more than life itself?

So I'm not a sex object whatsoever. I webcammed not to prove to myself that I was still attractive, but because I was watching lots of men stroking who weren't getting anywhere. Call me a goal-oriented voyeur.

The hilarious thing is that my last boyfriend was Nigerian. I basically live like I'm under the Taliban--I avoid male contact as much as possible because I'm a menace. But he noticed me walking down the street to a bookstore while my daughters were in karate lessons, and he followed me in and conducted a very strong offensive. I thought I was on safe ground--you know, fat women are supposed to be the comic relief, the make do on short rations, any port in a storm, etc. But turns out he was Nigerian, where I guess women my type are the epitome of sex-bomb (you have to be 200 pounds to be in their beauty contests and women go to special spas to fatten up). So he ended up being serious--quit smoking for me, etc. got hurt. So I skedaddled before I hurt him more. But while I was with him it was just very silly, because I'm SO FAT, and I swear even when I was young and pretty I didn't get the reaction, the drop dress and instant kaboing that I got from him. Very severe and silly culture shock.

I suppose the high dopamine has made so extremely confident in my sexuality that I really don't care whether I'm attractive or not. Except in a deliberate and manipulative way to get into men's pants which generally doesn't pose much of a challenge.

It's been interesting posting as much as I have here the past few days. Holding up my personal life to female scrutiny has made me realize I really do need to get my emotional capacity for romantic love in order. Conner has said in the past she thinks my sexual abilities are a by-product of the damage from my abusive marriage, rather than from my diet. I disagree--I think I instinctively adopted my diet as a survival mechanism (can't rape the willing) and am certain it does work on its own. But obviously the emotional damage is there. And I think it's time I deal with it.

I do hope women in healthy relationships can benefit from the diet.

RE: over-seas mom Sorry you are in the situation where you feel undervalued. Don't take this as hitting on you but I think women your age do have lots of value.

Personally I don't think about being with anyone much younger than me. Maybe you are borrowing trouble if you feel all guys want someone under 35. Too bad your H does not pay more attention to you.

I never saw women in see through clothing but I did read about it. I will admit I don't know what you are facing on a daily basis. Sounds tough.

Best wishes to you,
Lou