His and Her Health

I found this book at the library that says if a husband satisfies his wife's emotional needs then she will satisfy his emotional needs (and vice versa).

It lists the 10 most common emotional needs. The one emotional need that is least satisfied among women is "affection" vs. the least satisfied need among men is "sex".

However, I'm confused about a couple of things: (1) if a husband does all these things to satisfy his wife and, in time, builds up a positive balance (goodwill) in her "love account", won't she just be having sex with him out of guilt? and (2) isn't sex a PHYSICAL need, not an emotional one?

I'm left feeling that there is still a physiological imbalance with some women. Aside from satisfying emotional needs, what do you do about women who (1) have no physical sexual desire, and (2) have no desire to have that desire!?!

I can answer your first question and the answer is no. I suppose if the man was going through the motions of pretending to satisfy his wife's emotional needs to manipulate her into giving him sex in return, then she might be having sex out of guilt rather than genuine desire. But assuming he is sincere, then no.

I know you may think I don't really understand, since I'm a person who likes sex, but I do understand. I've mentioned this before: My husband has a fetish. It's not something that I would have chosen and it's not something that ever did anything for me, but he can't help it - it's part of him. I tolerated it for many years and we got by. But not long ago I decided to really embrace it and encourage him as much as possible. He's been so good to me and it's been like a dream come true for him. So at first, perhaps I was forcing myself to go through the motions of enjoying it. Not really in a bad way, but you might describe it as "out of guilt" or as "payment" for how well he treats me.

Well, here's the interesting part: Pavlov was right. He's SO appreciative and goes through such lengths to make sure I am satisfied too - every time - that now his fetish stuff actually turns me on. I have a physical response to it - like Pavlov's dogs. What does it matter that it's a learned rather than a "natural" response? We're having the time of our lives now.

I firmly believe the same can be true for other couples. You make a decision that you're going to do this for the one you love, even if it's not what you would naturally choose. But don't think it's going to be like that forever. If he appreciates you and what you've done and shows it in ways YOU like (and you have to let him know specifically what you like) then in time it becomes truly mutual - Not an obligation and not a guilt trip.

As for the second part of your question, I think you probably know that the answer is that sex is both a physical and emotional need. The balance of the two depends on the person and the situation.

As for your very last question, having no desire to have desire is short-sighted. It tantamount to saying you don't care if the man you supposedly love is miserable. If my husband lost the ability to have intercourse with me, I'd be very sad, but we'd find a way to deal with it. If he didn't WANT to have sex with me and, worse, had no desire to even try to change it, I'd be devastated and probably could not remain with him. It would be a sign to me that he didn't care about my feelings. And that's worse than no sex.

Whats wrong with having sex with your husband out of 'guilt'? If your sex drive is low or non-existant, your husband treates you well, you love him. The only thing thats going to motivate you to do what you wouldn't ordinarily due is a sense of obligation or guilt.

My wife likes me to help out around the house. I was raised in a home where my mother did EVERYTHING around the house. LIke father, like son. It took me a while to learn that I should be working around the house as well. Now my wife is very happy with the amount of laundry, dishes, cooking, etc that I do. But I don't do these things because I love doing them....I do it because I should do it and feel 'guilty' if I don't. And eva is right...now I actually feel better about myself that I'm doing what I should do. Yes..I am saying that laundry and dishes, while they are chores, have become more then just chores for me. They are a way I show my wife that I'm not an incosiderate asshole. And that feels good.

I really believe that a lot of women whe truely have low or non-existant sex drives, and who truely love there husbands, are out there enjoying sex in the same way that I actually enjoy doing the dishes. And I do dishes and laundry every day. They do it because they love the feeling they get in making their husbands lives better. Yes..they would feel guilty if they weren't doing it...and they should.

There are other women whose distaste for sex is greater then any possible enjoyment they could get from their husbands happiness. So they may feel guilty, do the tiresome, gross, futile (you pick the adjective) sex thing, and instead of feeling better about themselves AND their husbands....afterwards they feel worse about themselves and their husbands. Resentment sets in.

So guilt is not the problem..it really is a side issue here. The real issue is your attitude toward your husband combined with your attitude toward sex and your attitude about yourself thats the true determinant of how you will feel about obligatory sex.
In one case the guilt is just something that make you feel bad about about not doing something that makes you feel worse when you do it.
In the other case, guilt is just a reminder that you haven't been doing something you know you should do, and you know will make you feel better about yourself if you did it.

Excellent posts. What you both are saying is so worthwhile, and underlines the most important issue. Sex is a gift that should be freely given and received with both partners experiencing pleasure. A relationship is always a compromise and one person's happiness should be dependent on the other's.

I've had a rough four years dealing with a decline in my sexual functioning due to cancer treatment. But we're enjoying each other more than ever because I'm putting a lot of effort into maintaining our sex life and my husband is very appreciative. It's really the effort and mental attitude that counts.

Having said that, I don't believe anyone should ever have sex because of guilt or obligation. I sat in a courtroom once and heard a defense attorney in a rape trial try to diminish rape by calling it "just forced intercourse". That's sick. Obligatory sex, done because of manipulation or guilt, is ultimately as demeaning and degrading as rape. If a person cannot receive some pleasure out of the act, even if that pleasure is limited to enjoying your partner's pleasure, then you should get out of the relationship. Having unwanted sex with the goal of getting something in return, like maintaining a marriage and financial support, is just a few degrees from prostitution and can be just as emotionally damaging.

Laying there biting your lip while "thinking of England" went out of style a long time ago.

True. Both Bill and I touched on that. Bill more directly. There's a difference between the guilt you feel when you're not doing the right thing (good guilt) and guilt that's imposed on you from the outside to manipulate you (bad guilt). Two different animals and it doesn't just apply to sex.

If someone is using guilt to manipulate you to do ANYTHING you need to look at that really closely. I think you know by how you feel afterwards.

I hate paying the bills and I procrastinate and feel terribly guilty about it. But when I finally sit down and do it, I feel a profound sense of relief and I feel good about having done it, even though I didn't look forward to or enjoy the process itself. Like Bill and the dishes.

Hopefully having sex can become more than a chore, but it's a place to start as long as it's HER decision to do this for her husband. I encourage people with low libidos - or even high libido people with spouses with specific kinks you don't care for - to make this decision. One thing that keeps people from taking this step is the fear that it will ALWAYS be distasteful or that once started they'll always have to continue even if they never get to enjoy it. This is not true. If you really try something in good faith and after awhile it's still something you can't do without feeling icky, then talk about it and try to find another solution.

I just took a look at rae's original post in 2005 and he was looking for help because his wife, who had just given birth, had no sexual desire. Is this still an issue?

It is normal for a woman's sex drive to be impacted for quite some time by having a little one and two years isn't out of line. The demands of a toddler can be just as draining as a new baby. I've been there. If your sex life was good before the pregnancy, I'd give it some more time. Like Eva and I are fond of saying, it gets a lot better after the little twerps go off to college!

Rae - on a more practical note, you might get the book "I'd Rather Eat Chocolate" by Joan Sewell. You can get it on Amazon. If low libido is the problem, you both will benefit from reading this book.

By the way Eva, if I fell in the money pit tomorrow I'd PAY someone to pay my bills from then on. I hate it, too!

Thanks for the feedback and insight.

Things are better since my original post in 2005. Thinking back to that time, I would say we are moving in the right direction... wish we could move faster.

I'll check out the chocolate book. I also got the "reclaiming desire" book last time I was at the library. It was pretty good but the "his needs/her needs" book was more on point for our situation. I read both but she hasn't read either yet, of course.

PS. Try an online bill payment service. I use fidelity. It's free, secure, easy and takes only 5 minutes to pay all your bills. Fidelity is good because you get interest (4.97%) on your money until they deposit your check. Other services take your money as soon as you issue the payment.

rae,

I looked up that book on Amazon. Which edition did you read? Harley is the author, right?

15th Anniversay Addition. Farley is the author (i thought, maybe it's Harley).

So my wife finally got around to this book... she reads the first 44 pages and says it's all my fault. She doesn't need to read any further. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I still believe it's as much if not more a physiological/hormonal imbalance on her part...

Which book? What's all your fault? This is starting to sound like a relationship issue.

Rae - this is part of a message you posted 5 months after your child was born:

"1. My wife has no motivation or desire to have sex or masturbate whatsoever. A big void sexually.
2. She feels pressure from me to have sex. She is easily offended by my sexual overtures.
3. I am not enjoying the sex we are having. It takes her way too long to get arroused. It feels like I'm doing all the work.
4. She feels pain during sex *initially* which usually ends the attempt. We've tried lubrications (astroglide?).
5. I am tired of masturbating (even with her help). I am not sexually satisfied and I feel like I am repressing a problem.
OK... my uneducated diagnosis of the situation!
I think we are suffering from Female Sexual Dysfuntion."

You also said she was showing reduced interest in sex before she even became pregnant.

I have to say it appears you are looking at the situation from one side only... yours. Yes, there are physiological events that occur both as a relationship matures (see Dr. Z's recent post), and when a woman has a baby. Both you and your wife need to seriously educate yourselves about these issues (they are very common and it's something you need to make yourself very aware of), and then start acting like you are on the same team instead of fighting each other over who is right and who is wrong. She is no doubt feeling pressure from you. You both have managed to make the entire sex act into a negative for both of you. It's time you both educated yourselves about the reality of marriage and children, and most importantly got a sense of humor about it so you can deal with it in a positive manner. You're digging yourselves into a rut that will be very difficult to get out of if you let this negativity and "blame game" go on for much longer. We don't get what we want all the time. Sometimes we have to put our needs aside and focus on other things and/or people. There are different phases in life. When you insert major events into the equation like getting married and having children, you have to expect that your life will not remain the same. If we all wanted our lives to remain the same, we'd all be perpetual daters. But we don't. Most people want to move forward, to experience new joys they could never have imagined. To experience these things, we have to make sacrifices. I have a problem with you calling your wife "dysfunctional" when what you are both experiencing are natural events that occur when many people get married and have children. It's up to you and your wife to decide how you want to move forward. It's a choice - either work together, or make the rift between the two of you wider. This is more about your relationship, and educating yourselves, than anything else.

To begin with, couples do not even attempt to have sexual intercourse until an average of almost 4 months after a normal vaginal delivery because of pain, incontinence, and other problems. Knowing this may have prevented you from being so upset about your sex life only 5 months after the birth of your child. You wrote:

"The first couple of months after birth we didn't have sex. I think we attempted it once or twice but it was too painful for her. It was ok with me. I saw the baby come out and know what a stress it was for her.
Finally, after 3 months we had "sorta" normal sex ONE time while on vacation. However, it took a long time to get her motivated, it took her forever to get her arroused, and I could hardly do anything once it became my turn. Further attempts to have sex throughout the remaining vacation were not successful because of "pain".
As it stands right now, 5 months after our child was born, we've had sex 2 times (including the vacation)."

Even a full year after vaginal delivery, a significant number of women still report perineal pain, incontinence, hemorrhoids, etc. Add to that breast feeding, sleep deprivation, stress, and everything else that goes along with having a child, it isn't any wonder that a full year after a vaginal birth, the majority of women are reporting sexual problems. On top of that, add a husband who isn't putting forth his best effort at being understanding and patient, and a lot of resentment is bound to build up.

Alex, I'll take C-section for $10,000